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新教皇说:Who Am I To Judge Them?

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发表于 2013-7-29 18:41:49 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
Pope Francis On Gays: Who Am I To Judge Them?
这个教皇看来比上一个要开明

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/pope-francis-gays_n_36

Pope Francis has had a busy week at World Youth Day in Rio as he visited his
slums and prisons, blessed the Olympic flag and brought three million
people to Copacabana Beach for a final Mass on Sunday morning.

Now he has made another headline, this time when the pontiff said, "Who am I
to judge a gay person?"

While taking questions from reporters on the plane back to Rome, Francis
spoke about gays and the reported "gay lobby." According to the Wall Street
Journal, the Pope's comments about homosexuality came in the context of a
question about gay priests.

The pontiff broached the delicate question of how he would respond to
learning that a cleric in his ranks was gay, though not sexually active. For
decades, the Vatican has regarded homosexuality as a "disorder," and Pope
Francis' predecessor Pope Benedict XVI formally barred men with what the
Vatican deemed "deep-seated" homosexuality from entering the priesthood.
"Who am I to judge a gay person of goodwill who seeks the Lord?" the pontiff
said, speaking in Italian. "You can't marginalize these people."

John Allen of the National Catholic Reporter reported on the meeting as well
and said the Pope also addressed the question of the Vatican's reported "
gay lobby".

He hasn’t run into significant resistance to reform inside the Vatican, and
joked that if there really is a “gay lobby” he hasn’t yet seen it
stamped on anyone’s ID cards.
Father James Martin, S.J. who is an admirer of Francis, said that the
pontiff's comment about gay people is consistent with the rest of his papacy.

"One of Francis's hallmarks is an emphasis on mercy, which you see in that
response. That mercy, of course, comes from Jesus. And we can never have too
much of it."
The pope did not offer much hope for those advocating for women Catholic
priests, according to Allen at NCR, saying: Pope John Paul II “definitively
… closed the door' to women priests.

More from the Associated Press:

ABOARD THE PAPAL AIRCRAFT — Pope Francis reached out to gays on Monday,
saying he wouldn't judge priests for their sexual orientation in a
remarkably open and wide-ranging news conference as he returned from his
first foreign trip.
"If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I
to judge?" Francis asked.

His predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men
with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests. Francis was
much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their
sins forgotten.

Francis' remarks came Monday during a plane journey back to the Vatican from
his first foreign trip in Brazil.

He was funny and candid during a news conference that lasted almost an hour
and a half. He didn't dodge a single question, even thanking the journalist
who raised allegations reported by an Italian newsmagazine that one of his
trusted monsignors was involved in a scandalous gay tryst.

Francis said he investigated and found nothing to back up the allegations.

Francis was asked about Italian media reports suggesting that a group within
the church tried to blackmail fellow church officials with evidence of
their homosexual activities. Italian media reported this year that the
allegations contributed to Benedict's decision to resign

While stressing Catholic social teaching that calls for homosexuals to be
treated with dignity and not marginalized, Francis said it was something
else entirely to conspire to use private information for blackmail or to
exert pressure.

Francis was responding to reports that a trusted aide was involved in an
alleged gay tryst a decade ago. He said he investigated the allegations
according to canon law and found nothing to back them up. But he took
journalists to task for reporting on the matter, saying the allegations
concerned matters of sin, not crimes like sexually abusing children.

And when someone sins and confesses, he said, God not only forgives but
forgets.

"We don't have the right to not forget," he said.

发表于 2013-7-29 19:30:42 | 显示全部楼层
神父不能有性行为,是直是弯有什么区别?
 楼主| 发表于 2013-7-29 21:30:41 | 显示全部楼层
Esquimau 发表于 2013-7-29 19:30
神父不能有性行为,是直是弯有什么区别?

关键是他对信徒以及其他普通民众的态度。他是第一个这样说的教皇吧。

这些年天主教比新教更liberal,跟当年分家的时候完全相反,为什么会有这种变化,雪门有研究嘛?
发表于 2013-7-29 21:41:56 | 显示全部楼层
kaleege 发表于 2013-7-29 21:30
关键是他对信徒以及其他普通民众的态度。他是第一个这样说的教皇吧。

这些年天主教比新教更liberal,跟 ...

没有危机,就没有改革的动力。
发表于 2013-7-30 04:25:12 | 显示全部楼层
Esquimau 发表于 2013-7-29 19:30
神父不能有性行为,是直是弯有什么区别?

神父猥亵男童时常听说,但很少听说女童。这说明神父是弯的。
发表于 2013-7-30 13:24:21 | 显示全部楼层
kaleege 发表于 2013-7-29 21:30
关键是他对信徒以及其他普通民众的态度。他是第一个这样说的教皇吧。

这些年天主教比新教更liberal,跟 ...

新教派别众多啊,liberal的超级liberal,fundamental的超级fundamental,你看到fundamental的大多是美国红脖子,主要是当年文化程度低,只会读圣经造成的。欧洲人要好多了。

天主教主要是梵蒂冈把关的,它看着不爽的思想要被禁,至少不许神甫公开说,所以思想没有新教的差别那么大。天主教作为一个整体思维放开是1960年代的梵蒂冈第二次公会。

至于同性恋问题,其实这届教宗到目前也没什么本质不同。官方的说法就是要同情关爱同性恋人群,但是坚决反对同性恋婚姻。天主教七大sacrament,其中一个是marriage。什么时候marriage神父可为gay主婚,那才是真正的变化,否则没有本质区别,我觉得。
 楼主| 发表于 2013-7-30 14:25:53 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 kaleege 于 2013-7-30 14:27 编辑
archers 发表于 2013-7-30 04:25
神父猥亵男童时常听说,但很少听说女童。这说明神父是弯的。

只听说过altar boy,没听说过altar girl,要考虑到神父接触到的boy比较多...
 楼主| 发表于 2013-7-30 14:26:56 | 显示全部楼层
Esquimau 发表于 2013-7-30 13:24
新教派别众多啊,liberal的超级liberal,fundamental的超级fundamental,你看到fundamental的大多是美国 ...

有道理
发表于 2013-7-30 14:49:28 | 显示全部楼层
Esquimau 发表于 2013-7-30 13:24
新教派别众多啊,liberal的超级liberal,fundamental的超级fundamental,你看到fundamental的大多是美国 ...

结婚是个什么东东,打回去看看围城,醒醒脑
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